Hi friends,
This week on Ursa Short Fiction, Deesha Philyaw and Dawnie Walton talk with Destiny O. Birdsong, author of the poetry collection Negotiations and the novel Nobody’s Magic. Last year, Birdsong published a short story, “The Jump,” only to have it pulled from publication less than a day later over disagreements with the editors. The story eventually found a new home at Roxane Gay’s newsletter, The Audacity.
Birdsong talks about navigating censorship and what happens when writers and editors don’t see eye to eye, and they highlight the necessity of respect and support from editors and keeping the integrity of your work when finding a home for it. Birdsong also talks about the intersections of religion and queerness, the representation of queer sex and sex work in literature, and how she follows instinct when approaching her work.
Destiny O. Birdsong: “You know, it’s funny. I had this overwhelming feeling that felt very familiar, but I couldn’t put my finger on it, and it wasn’t until a few days later that I realized that that feeling was slut shaming. And there’s something about being slut shamed, like it lives in my bones. It’s like muscle memory.”
“Sex is part of the lived experience. Queer sex is also a part of the lived experience. There are many arguments that suggest it might even be biblical, right? Like, there are all these references to oral sex in the Song of Solomon, and the relationship between Ruth and Naomi is really interesting, as is the relationship between David and Jonathan.
“There are all these things that we don’t know about the past. About the figures that are a part of our iconography, and whatever our religious practices are. And so I think that for me, the thing that I am often thinking about when I am writing is, where are my impulses leading me?
“Sometimes it’s just like, you’re just following a path. I don’t often start writing a story knowing how it’s going to end or where it’s going to go, or all of the things that are going to be in it. But if the characters are taking me to a place, I’ll go.”
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Reading List: Authors, Stories, and Books Mentioned
- Negotiations: Poems (Destiny O. Birdsong)
- Nobody’s Magic (Destiny O. Birdsong)
- “The Jump” (Destiny O. Birdsong, The Audacity 2024)
- Rick Hillis
- Roxane Gay
- Toi Derricotte
- “The Woman Shaping a Generation of Black Thought” (J Wortham, The New York Times, 2023)
Watch List
More from Deesha and Dawnie
- The Secret Lives of Church Ladies (Deesha Philyaw)
- The Final Revival of Opal & Nev (Dawnie Walton)
Show Credits
Produced by Ursa Story Company
Hosted by Deesha Philyaw & Dawnie Walton
Executive Producers: Dawnie Walton, Deesha Philyaw, and Mark Armstrong
Associate Producer: Marina Leigh
Episode Editor: Kelly Araja
About the Author
Destiny O. Birdsong is the author of the poetry collection Negotiations (Tin House Books, 2020) and the triptych novel Nobody’s Magic (Grand Central, 2022), which was longlisted for the Center for Fiction’s First Novel Prize, was a finalist for the Ernest J. Gaines Award for Literary Excellence, and won the 2022 Willie Morris Award for Southern Fiction. She has served as a Writer-in-Residence for the Hurston/Wright Foundation and the University of Tennessee and is a contributing editor of Poets & Writers magazine. She is currently at work on a second novel and a collection of short stories.
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